Difference between revisions of "Talk:Gender"

From BDSM Wiki
Jump to: navigation, search
(Alienation?)
Line 34: Line 34:
  
 
Neither is "trans". Both cis and trans refer to how gender corresponds to some other thing, such as assigned sex at birth. Someone could be masculine and be cis, or they could be feminine and be cis, or whatever.
 
Neither is "trans". Both cis and trans refer to how gender corresponds to some other thing, such as assigned sex at birth. Someone could be masculine and be cis, or they could be feminine and be cis, or whatever.
 +
 +
Gender is going to be a divisive issue no matter what, and no one is going to agree on it fully, ever, wikipedia has the same problems of people disagreeing about controversial topics and that is never going to go away.  For now however, it seems prudent that if someone wants to write articles they should write articles, especially if there is information that is contextual to BDSM, and if no one wants to deal with it, the last option should be to link offsite for an entire page and should not be the standard practice (though it might make sense to have a stub for now and then link for more data until we get enough data gathered).  Further, discussion of gender has a lot to do with how many view their sexual rights and in many cases the two things are indeed historically linked (stonewall).  If you consider yourself a gender expert, please feel free to red up those words and start filling them in.  Arguing over something that isn't there is a waste of time.  Put something down (not vandalism of course) and then we can start finagling the message until it's a good representation.  This is a wiki, the first draft, is very rarely if ever the last draft. That said,

Revision as of 11:39, 11 March 2014

"Hermaphrodite" is not a medical term. It is also considered highly offensive. The correct term is "intersex." Intersex encompasses a variety of conditions. This page also seems to not understand the difference between sex, gender, and gender identity. These are really important distinctions.

Cis and trans are not orientations in and of themselves. They relate to how an individual relates to their assigned gender at birth.

Many younger trans people consider FTM or MTF to represent a narrative that does not necessarily relate to the reality of their lives. They were born what they are now. It's just that their birth assignment didn't match.

While that is true, there are still those who identify with the FTM or MTF narratives, so they are options. And you're talking with one now.

Tersia (talk) 04:41, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Definition of gender

The article had "Gender is the range of biological characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between the spectrum of masculinity and femininity". While that is flat-out wrong, it was entered by Admin, so I'm not going to try to change it outright. I added a citation needed tag. This site shouldn't be defining gender for people. It should be linking them out to reliable sources. -- Wulfrath

If you see something like that, please do post a suggestion for the alteration that reflects a culturally inclusive view, linking to a notable source is also great. I am certainly not above the law, and a lot of what is entered is written at late hours with very little sleep to get the project rolling. --Admin (talk) 13:23, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Alienation?

The page currently has a note on it that I, with my genderfucked lenses on, can not figure out. I personally cannot find how this is sounding like gender variant people are space aliens. To me, it's just neural and straight forward. Basically, I'm looking for a way to fix it, and can't find one.

Within the world of BDSM, gender rights and orientations are a large and often debated discussion. Best Practices are to indicate an inclusive view concerning gender orientation as a part of identity and recognize that many identify their gender in various fashions as is their right Template:This makes it sound like gender variant people are space aliens. you are assuming cis readers

I think I fixed it by minimizing the information and strictly limiting the data to what gender is. Further, for now adding "culturally exclusive gender as a page and listing some of them that may cover the genders there, and if/when we eventually have articles on each of them, the appropriate measure seems to be that each be listed as a gender no different from other genders but be tagged on the article as a culturally exclusive gender as well as a gender for categories. The reason I think they should be included in both is that we can show that generally speaking there is a stance that a particular orientation is considered culturally exclusive, but lets be real, this is the internet, people adopt culture however they are going to, and no one has the right to tell someone they cannot identify a certain way, they can only decide if they endorse that agenda for themselves. Is that potentially insensitive, it could be, but no one culture owns a trademark to a thought/idea.
Would you like me to go through and add Wikipedia links until we flesh those out on our own?
There are reasons for those culturally exclusive ones to be culturally exclusive. For example, white people calling themselves a Two-Spirit without express link to the Native American tribes is culturally insensitive and erases the identities of actual Two-Spirit people, since being Two-Spirit is linked to the Native American belief and social systems as well. There are other, non-culturally exclusive terms for the third gender. Here's the Wiki link on all third genders, hopefully it's some insight: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender -- Sabryna
Admin, it's a part of the internet that YOU control. This whole, "Yeah, but whaddaya gonna do" apathetic shit is tiring. Just because some other people are jerks doesn't excuse you being a jerk too. Someone has told you there's a problem, so fix it. Also, this is the BDSM wiki. It's not the gender wiki. I see no reason you need to define gender here when there are perfectly good places on the internet to find that information. All you're accomplishing is adding MISinformation. 76.73.41.174 01:51, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
Can we just throw links to GOOD sources on gender in this page, then? I don't see why this has to be a dividing issue.

"Cis" is not a gender

Neither is "trans". Both cis and trans refer to how gender corresponds to some other thing, such as assigned sex at birth. Someone could be masculine and be cis, or they could be feminine and be cis, or whatever.

Gender is going to be a divisive issue no matter what, and no one is going to agree on it fully, ever, wikipedia has the same problems of people disagreeing about controversial topics and that is never going to go away. For now however, it seems prudent that if someone wants to write articles they should write articles, especially if there is information that is contextual to BDSM, and if no one wants to deal with it, the last option should be to link offsite for an entire page and should not be the standard practice (though it might make sense to have a stub for now and then link for more data until we get enough data gathered). Further, discussion of gender has a lot to do with how many view their sexual rights and in many cases the two things are indeed historically linked (stonewall). If you consider yourself a gender expert, please feel free to red up those words and start filling them in. Arguing over something that isn't there is a waste of time. Put something down (not vandalism of course) and then we can start finagling the message until it's a good representation. This is a wiki, the first draft, is very rarely if ever the last draft. That said,